Latent Print Search

[josher89]

Is there an 'official' way to post a latent print here for others to search in their local or state AFIS? I have been working on cold cases from time to time and although I can submit to NGI, I know that there are plenty of states that haven't always submitted misdemeanor arrests to the FBI for archiving. Other than contacting people from other states that I've had in classes and asking them to search, is there a way to put latents out there for others to search and see if they can identify it? I seem to remember maybe something on onin.com about posting a latent for searching and I looked briefly today but couldn't find it.

If not, is there a reason why we can't? I understand that these would be open cases and identifying them carries other issues, but could there be a way to post a latent print without case identifiers, folks who want to can search it, and if a hit is generated and the person posting is advised of that hit, the formalities could commence at that point? Or, one could create an email list of folks in states that would be willing to submit a search to a database and that email list could be used by the person requesting assistance and it could be done away from this public forum?

Thoughts? Legalities?

[Tazman]

Hey, Josher,

In three words, "Chain of Custody."

I think to preserve the evidential integrity of a latent and to comply with other agencies' requirements for submission and acceptance, you would have to submit latents directly to the agencies doing the searches. I know that means one at a time in a registered letter, or maybe an electronic email attachment if another agency would accept that, but I don't think many agencies would run latents off a website. Likewise, I'm sure a defense attorney would wreak havoc on you in court it evidence were posted on a website for all the world to see before trial.

Perhaps you could list your email address or solicit PMs on this website, then mail photographs to agencies whose policies allow them to take outside submissions.

Good luck catching some of these bastids!

[josher89]

Taz,

I guess more than anything, I was looking for a way to quickly search a latent in multiple databases. It if hits, a formal request would be made that followed all of the proper channels. But, as you said, would this invalidate the COC on that latent print? It sounds like it won't, but a guy can dream, can't he?

[sandra wiese]

Josher, in 2007 I had a pretty brutal double homicide and posted on this very forum for people in various states to please run my scene prints through their databases. I had (still have, unfortunately) about 14 scene prints that were so pretty they could have been rolled by Pat Wertheim himself. We had reason to believe our suspect had lived in certain states, hence the call for those people to help and not "everyone".

Someone from every state I wanted it ran through contacted me via email and I sent them the prints and they ran them. The whole issue with a registered letter and whatnot is time and the PITA factor. Had someone received a hit, I would have then gone through proper channels to make it official and whatnot. My initial request was for people to run some or all of these prints through their databases just "to see". That takes very little time. I did and still do appreciate the people who are not tied to protocol and paperwork and reached out to help. We didn't and still haven't solved this one, but I won't stop trying!

As for chain of custody, I'm not sure it is really relevant. You are not sending actual evidence, just a digital copy. And you would not be having someone from X state come to testify as to the ID but you would do that/replicate that yourself.

Feel free to PM me if I can help. But a caveat: if you are doing "cases" instead of one or two, here or there, then on behalf of all of us: we are overloaded already. Probably best to keep it to the states that you have a reasonable suspicion your suspect might have fled to. Often the case detective has reason to believe certain things like that but it won't be in the case file.

[Steve Everist]

Josher, in 2007 I had a pretty brutal double homicide and posted on this very forum for people in various states to please run my scene prints through their databases...

We didn't and still haven't solved this one, but I won't stop trying!

Sandra, have you rerun the prints through the new FBI NGI? We've been revisiting cold cases and have been find quite a bit of success with their new system.

[sandra wiese]

It's on the list of things to do. Unfortunately, ours is one of the many new systems that isn't connecting to the federal database and they can't seem to figure out why. We have been having luck with those cold cases we have time to review. It would be nice, though, if we could get a qualified examiner to please come work for us full time, for free. Then maybe we could catch up! hahaha But yes, once I get the chance they will go through.