CLPEX Chat Board

I am at a bit of an impasse. My lab uses tracing paper to do ridge-tracing before entering a print into AFIS. Our NEC AFIS terminal suggests using only the pal .200 Clear Matte Polyester Tracing Film (SOMAR - PALNA B-200). I have called multiple Forensic supply companies and it seems like no one is supplying this tracing film anymore. I am wondering is there is anyone out there that still uses tracing paper and pencil to ridge-trace and if there is what type of tracing paper is being used? Or to see if there is anyone out there that can tell me where and how to obtain more of this elusive tracing film.

Any suggestions or leads are appreciated.

Thank you so much,

S

Dear 'S' as a suggestion why not contact the California DOJ that is doing AFIS searches for your state. They might be able to tell you that ridge tracing is not done much anymore or might be able to tell you where to get the tracing paper.

One of the systems we have is a NEC but we stopped doing tracings over 6 years ago.

Good Luck.

So are you enlarging your latent, hand-tracing, then reducing the tracing back to 1:1 for entry (using a latent entry card)? If so - wow.

Have you tried doing your tracing on-screen using a digital imaging program and then printing it 1:1 using a decent inkjet or laser printer, and then attaching it to the card? I think that's how we were doing it towards the end of using that style of NEC system (one for the Bingo sheet, Boyd). But that's been 9 or 10 years ago.

Lightning Powder does show it online, and I was able to put it in my cart. But at $187/100 sheets - if you work around it, you should!

Hello,

So far, I have called NEC to see what they recommend we do to get more tracing paper, but they have not returned my two voicemails. I will try and contact someone at the DOJ too (just not sure they will have a good suggestion since it would seem that we are the only lab that still does ridge tracing with pencil.) We print a 5x photo of the print, trace with pencil and then enter the print into AFIS at 5x. We would love to use a computer program to trace, but our supervisor has us doing it by hand.

Are there any labs that still trace with paper and pencil?

.... and we did call Lightning Powder and Forensic Tech, but both companies said that they do not actually carry it anymore and that the site is just old.

Thank you both for the suggestions so far.

-S

We do have some people who still trace by hand, and they are using Drafting film from Grafix (last ordered in 2009 Catalog# K03PM1117 for 11X17 sheets). It's more of a preference of the analyst rather than a system need, though...

sgustavson wrote:Hello,
We print a 5x photo of the print, trace with pencil and then enter the print into AFIS at 5x. We would love to use a computer program to trace, but our supervisor has us doing it by hand.

Is there a reason why beyond, "That's what we've always done"?

After we went to the AFIS 21 system, we would do our tracings in Photoshop and then print the 5X enlarged tracings on the office printer. Then those printouts would get scanned into AFIS (using a flatbed scanner). If you've already got the computers and Photoshop (or you can get Gimp for free), then it will cost you $0 to change over and you won't have to buy tracing paper.

The unit supervisor is out on maternity leave, but I will ask her when she gets back in two months. However, until then I am still on the hunt for this darn tracing paper.

-S

What are you using to get the tracing into your AFIS? If it isn't anything special (we used a standard flatbed scanner), then why don't you try regular tracing paper from an office supply store?

I'm confused as to why this tracing paper is so magical since we've used inkjet and laser printouts on standard white paper for close to 10 years.

to quote Steve "Wow"

Talk about dinosaurs we stopped tracing in the mid 80's are you guys using AFIS 21 or the old main frame still, why not just get a SLR digital camera set up, capture directly off the lift save it to the network and pull it up off the network on to the AFIS terminal it would pay for itself in a year in time and money.

When we had the old main frame and 386's we worked out it was quicker to capture directly off the lift and edit on screen using the NEC software, however we had been supplied the 1 to 1 readers so then we had to enlarge using the Crimcon 5 times, did our tracings then using a photocopier reduced back to 1 to 1 from the tracing. As I remember it we did about 10 or 20 at a time then sat at the main frame terminal and batch processed. We even had a supervisor checking our tracings for a wee while. How times have changed.

Anyway to answer your question try an art supply shop they sell tracing paper here in NZ.

Steve - I am a coworker of the person who posted this originally. To answer some of your questions, the tracing paper is tough to find because we need it to be sturdy enough that we can erase and retrace things multiple times if need be. Normal tracing paper can't do this. However, the thicker stuff tends to also be less transparent, which poses a problem for tracing through it. I believe someone here is checking out architectural drafting paper.

A digital capturing system is used to get the tracing into AFIS. Plainly put, a camera attached to the computer takes a photo of the tracing and inputs it into the NEC software for AFIS searching.

As for the why, yes there are reasons other than "it's just what we've always done", ha. Our software does permit us to enter a print after manually (i.e. the computer takes a guess at all minutia points and we go through and correct what needs to be corrected and adjust ridge counting afterward) if we want to do it that way someday. For now, our supervisor feels that tracing a print forces an examiner to really get to know what is going on with each ridge. By being made to follow each ridge's path through a print, nothing is missed or entered incorrectly. I've done both methods, and can't help but agree with her on that one. In addition, she feels that taking the time to trace a print is more in line with the 'A' portion of the ACE-V method. Because again, it really forces an examiner to look at every smallest detail of the print.

Both methods - manual entry and tracing - have their pros and cons. Honestly, we spend so much time evaluating a print with ImagePro Plus (similar to Photoshop for those who aren't familiar) by marking details, tracing through it so we can see what's going on, using photo enhancements to try to see through distortion, all before any comparisons...and all of that would be done no mater what method we useed...transferring that work to a piece of tracing paper doesn't take that much extra time. To me, manual vs. tracing is six of one, half dozen of the other.

B

well put B

I am obviously from a different culture

bficken wrote:Steve - I am a coworker of the person who posted this originally.

For now, our supervisor feels that tracing a print forces an examiner to really get to know what is going on with each ridge. By being made to follow each ridge's path through a print, nothing is missed or entered incorrectly. I've done both methods, and can't help but agree with her on that one. In addition, she feels that taking the time to trace a print is more in line with the 'A' portion of the ACE-V method. Because again, it really forces an examiner to look at every smallest detail of the print.

I have no problem with that. I've been tracing latents since I started as an LPE about 13 years ago. In a few weeks that will end and it will be more of a direct entry system due to our new AFIS. I also understand the value of tracing out the ridges.

However it's the method that I'm questioning. Instead of doing it manually with a pencil and tracing paper, do you have the software to do it digitally? Our tracings have been done using layers in Photoshop since a year or so after I started. The 5X tracing is printed out with a common printer and then flatbed scanned into our AFIS 21. It seems like you could do the same thing with your camera and ditch the tracing paper altogether.

Both methods - manual entry and tracing - have their pros and cons. Honestly, we spend so much time evaluating a print with ImagePro Plus (similar to Photoshop for those who aren't familiar) by marking details, tracing through it so we can see what's going on, using photo enhancements to try to see through distortion, all before any comparisons...and all of that would be done no mater what method we useed...transferring that work to a piece of tracing paper doesn't take that much extra time. To me, manual vs. tracing is six of one, half dozen of the other.

But if you can do your tracings without the tracing paper, you will save the cost of the paper and possibly even more time.

Steve,

Ah, I see what you are saying. And yes, I agree, it seems like it would be more efficient to do the tracings through the computer rather than on the tracing paper. That idea actually came up in our last unit meeting. Someone suggested we get Photoshop (right now we just have Image-Pro Plus) and just print out tracings directly from there. Now it's just a matter of waiting for all of the appropriate testing and approvals. Keep your fingers crossed for us, and thank you for the input!

bficken wrote: For now, our supervisor feels that tracing a print forces an examiner to really get to know what is going on with each ridge. By being made to follow each ridge's path through a print, nothing is missed or entered incorrectly. I've done both methods, and can't help but agree with her on that one. In addition, she feels that taking the time to trace a print is more in line with the 'A' portion of the ACE-V method. Because again, it really forces an examiner to look at every smallest detail of the print.

B

Unfortunately, I do not have a suggestion on where to find tracing paper for your NEC system. I remember having to use that technology and I really feel for you. I frequently trace ridges during my analysis and I agree that it forces the examiner to look at every detail in the print. I wanted to add to Steve's suggestion on tracing ridges on the computer. I would suggest getting a digital touch pad along with Photoshop. I like the digital touch pad because it feels more natural, like I am still tracing with pencil and paper. I found tracing ridges with a computer mouse a bit difficult.