CLPEX Chat Board

Good morning All

I am finally getting around to tinker with this idea but I understand that I will need to use at least a reasonable amount of sound methodology to make it of value.

Also, I do not have access to fancy lab stuff, supercomputers and highly specialised toys so a decent camera system,proper lighting and everyday stuff available around the house and office is what I have at my disposal.

Any comments from interested parties would be welcomed.

Have a wonderful day!

Hello Anton,

Good luck with your research into 'pores'. The surface feature is structurally permanent due to the embryology but what we actually see in fingerprints and on the surface of the skin is not, the pore. Have a good look at some Histology images, Hashimoto is very good, but there are quite a few others in the fields of Anatomy and Embryology, Leeson & Leeson text has an excellent example. For a really good understanding of the whole system have a look at how the gland, ducts and the pore are formed as well as what is called the ostia which is what we actually see on the surface. I said ducts, because there are two parts, the dermal duct first and then the epidermal duct second. It is really interesting that the length of the two ducts is the same or at least very close. But the epidermal duct is spiral with its own special anatomical name. Once again the use of the term pores is a another dogma that is present in the fingerprint language. In the other thread dealing with sweat activity, on the left edge and about three ridges in there is a linear depression running along the surface of the ridge connecting two openings . Very interesting anatomical formation, a surface depression logically caused by Primary Ridge formation. Cheers Les

Hello Les and thanks for the reply.

My take on it for now is rather simplistic and I aim to learn a lot as I go.

Primarily, all the (rather archaic!) drawings and schematics I have seen of the epidermal acrosyringium as far as I remember shows them as spiralled.

My first aim is to see whether the relative placement of pores can "migrate" and to what extent.

I have smallish hands and reproducing pores consistently does pose a challenge or two. As I have it, friction skin epidermis regenerates itself completely every 30 days or so...many questions in there so my first hurdle would be recording my own suitable section of friction ridge skin regularly and consistently.

Will share as I go!

Cheers,

Anton

Hi Anton,

Same as yourself when I started my literature research back in the late 90's the fingerprint text material was simplistic. It does take an investment of time and effort to uncover the tissue types, formation processes, interdependence of organs, timings and specialised language. Yes the acrosyringium is a feature of the epidermal duct that starts at the basal membrane and due to its later timing of cellular proliferation it has to struggle upward through the already formed layers of the epidermis. The duct is a separate tissue to the epidermis. How it pushes upwards is guided by the vertical deformation of the epidermal layers as a result of the shape of the anlagen that began the start of the dermal duct. So the epidermal duct spirals or corkscrews its way upwards to reach the free surface. It is guided in its direction and generally succeeds in reaching the conical depression in the Stratum Corneum called the ostium. Inside the ostium the duct completes its vertical development, the cells of the duct then differentiate to create the lumen which is now continuous with the lumen of the dermal duct and the eccrine gland organ structure is ready to function. The structures of the duct are permanent with cells being replaced to maintain the structure. I have summarised all the available literature research up to around 2005. There would be new papers now available. Dr William Babler was doing some interesting research. Question for you Anton, the location of the sweat openings on the surface of the ridges is a uniform even distribution, measurable and with no indications of random embryologic development so do you agree there is no credence to the chaos theory of bio-mechanical development?. Other critical observations are the uniform spacing of ridges, ridge surface width and in particular the uniform height of ridges, no indications here either to support a random development theory due to a 'variety of stresses'. Cheers Les

Thanks very much for the responses to date folks!

I will message you directly on here for things I am not quite ready to publish on a public forum. I trust that will be OK?

Cheers,

Anton

So this is where I am now...

The black band at the bottom is from a metric scale sticker that turned black upon inverting the image.

It should become painfully clear that I have an issue or three to deal with, not the least of which being the vertical lines in the print to the top right.

The red rings show specific areas of interest I will be studying to see what, if any, dramatic changes show up.

Pores were what I was going for and plenty of pores are visible but I think the general appearance of 3rd level detail is more feasible than pores only.

Any comments appreciated!

Hi Anton,

I stumbled across someone's Master's Thesis which tackles some of what you're discussing. The content and references should provide some good material. Alternatively, you could comb through the Fingerprint Sourcebook citations for other publications that may show research.

Boyd Baumgartner wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:55 am Hi Anton,

I stumbled across someone's Master's Thesis which tackles some of what you're discussing. The content and references should provide some good material. Alternatively, you could comb through the Fingerprint Sourcebook citations for other publications that may show research.

Hi Boyd

Can we revive this discussion?

Anton