CLPEX Chat Board

Here is a scenario for you. You are an IAI Certified Latent Print Examiner and you receive an offer to complete 10 hours of comparison work per week on your home computer, any time of the day or night, and any day of the week or weekend. For some of you, the thought of working on your home PC may mean finally having the justification to scrap that 1980 IBM PC with a 10 inch monitor and buy a REAL computer with a flat panel monitor! You realize that your hardware may limit your on-screen comparison ability, but with the ever-present ability to make "inconclusive" determinations, let's hypothetically continue with our scenario.

You are assured you will never be asked to testify to your conclusions, but you know there will be others that look at your work. Efficiency is only an issue in making administrative decisions about whether you get additional work. Here is the question that relates to this poll:

What is the minimum hourly amount that would cause you to accept this assignment instead of letting it pass to another examiner?

There is no amount of money in the world that could make me work fingerprints on my home computer. Home is where I go to get AWAY from fingerprints. Sorry, that's not a really helpful remark, but it is heartfelt.

Is it possible that you could send the images on cassette tape, since I can't afford the 5 1/4" floppy drive for my Commodore 64?

This is an interesting scenario as I think some of the replies, assuming there are a few, will be based on their current wage. Seeing how the majority of LPE jobs that I've seen fall in the $20-$40/hr range lately, the choices seem to be right there. For those making $20/hr, double time would be reason enough not to stay late at the office every night. But for those making $40/hr, it may be less compelling.

In one respect, many of us can make a bit more by just doing some OT at our own offices, but we can't do that in our sweat pants and fuzzy bunny slippers either.

So according to your hypothetical scenario, I as an examiner would NOT have access to tenprint cards? I would be comparing solely on-screen and signing my name to identifications without ever seeing the "live" print?

This sets off scary alarm bells in my head... I'm not sure any amount of money is worth risking your career and reputation like that. Or are there agencies out there that routinely compare on-screen (and on-screen only) and are totally comfortable with this? I was always taught that was bad, bad, BAD.

Heidi,

There are agencies that capture digital-only for latent prints. Also, if you use Livescan, you're using digitally captured 10-Prints.

Now you could print out everything acquired digitally and use magnifiers if you like, but the source would still be digital.

Ah! Yes, I see what you mean now. I was thinking of AFIS comparisons and the attendant resolution issues, etc. I was not thinking about digitally-captured images being compared to digital livescan images. That makes a whole lot more sense, thanks.

So, pardon my extreme denseness, but what is the "catch" in the above scenario? It looks to me like the option is whether to take OT at work, or get to do it at home? Is there some inconvenience tbat I am missing here?

Or is the catch that you are "on-call" and can be asked to do this at any hour of the night?

Heidi,

I think that this scenario is independent of your current job, not as a request from your current employer.

It sounds as if it would be working sort of as an independent contractor for comparison services outside of the time spent at your current job.

Don't mean to make your scenario more complicated than necessary, however a whole lot of "ifs" come to mind. Presuming those conditions were met satisfactorly, I could envision the scenario working.

Would written reports (beyond calling ID, No ID, Inconclusive) be required? Would comprehensive note taking be required? Would specific standards be provided and required to be met? Could original or hardcopy images be requested if deemed prudent? What is the end use of the work product, and what is the responsibility/potential liability of the examiner?

I could go on, but the minimum acceptable hourly rate would likely be affected by the answers to these types of questions. Regardless, I think that a certifiied examiner willing to do actual casework at $20/hour (presumably as overtime equivalent) is undervaluing themselves, even if they can do it in their pajamas.

RL Tavernaro wrote:Would written reports (beyond calling ID, No ID, Inconclusive) be required? Would comprehensive note taking be required? Would specific standards be provided and required to be met? Could original or hardcopy images be requested if deemed prudent? What is the end use of the work product, and what is the responsibility/potential liability of the examiner?

Written reports would not be required in this scenario, and neither would comprehensive note taking, although it could be allowed. The only standards would be those within you the expert in order to make a reliable judgement as to the identity, non-identity, or your inconclusion. Original images could not be requested, but if you were to flag the comparison as "inconclusive" it would be looked into by someone else. There would be no additional responsibility or liability involved with the examination. If an incorrect decision was made but a verifier caught it, the only consequence is your reputation. If all parties make an incorrect decision and it is caught outside the scenario, then professional liability falls upon the company.

Hope this helps you answer the scenario!

-Kasey

Thanks Kasey. That does indeed simplify things to the essentials: Comparison & Conclusion.
Regards, RLT

RL Tavernaro wrote:Thanks Kasey. That does indeed simplify things to the essentials: Comparison & Conclusion.
Regards, RLT

Yes indeed... pure on-screen "ACE" within the examiner - visual analysis of the latent print, comparison of both, evaluation without extensive annotation capability, and conclusion recorded by button press. Thank you for your questions of clarification!

-Kasey

To me some of it would depend on the company (agency) and the reputation of said company.

A few quick things that flew into my mind initially is:

How is performance reviewed? Time per examination, accuracy, etc? I wouldn't take any amount of money per hour if I felt that I needed to rush examinations to get more work. And conversely, will the company limit (or stop) the work of the employee if they aren't "fast" enough?

How are the images presented to the examiner? Would I have the ability to clarify the images (Adjust contrast, roation, magnification, etc)?

Would I have any information about the substrate of the latent print?

Would it just be a one latent to one inked print comparison, or are you looking at one latent vs one or more complete fingerprint records?

Is this the initial examination, or is it some form of a blind verification process?

Is there a process in place for errors? i.e. what if I make an ID, and the next person doesn't believe that there is enough detail for ID? What is the dispute resolution process?

Just a few things off the top of my head.

Andrew Schriever wrote:How is performance reviewed? Time per examination, accuracy, etc?

In this scenario, more than 1 person would look at transactions, and they would be administratively reviewed if differences occurred.

Andrew Schriever wrote:will the company limit (or stop) the work of the employee if they aren't "fast" enough?

If you were running a crime lab latent print operation and you had 6 latent print examiners, 5 of whom were extremely efficient and accurate, and the other examiner was extremely accurate but only half as efficient, which 5 would you choose to assign 5 "rush" cases to? Of course, you wouldn't assign it to the inefficient examiner and push them to be faster... you would make an administrative decision that eliminated the need to push anyone beyond their natural efficiency level. As a lab manager, it becomes a simple cost-benefit administrative decision for you to make based on objective data from past performance.

Andrew Schriever wrote:Would I have the ability to clarify the images (Adjust contrast, rotation, magnification, etc)?

Sure.

Andrew Schriever wrote:Would I have any information about the substrate of the latent print?

If such information existed. If the only reason you couldn't make an indi/excl was because you didn't have that information, then you would always have the "inconclusive" option available.

Andrew Schriever wrote:Would it just be a one latent to one inked print?

At any given time, doesn't it always boil down to this? Sure... perhaps 10 times to 10 different inked prints, but one of three conclusions would obviously be provided for each of the 10 separate comparisons.

Andrew Schriever wrote:Is this the initial examination, or is it some form of a blind verification process?

Would it matter to you, the examiner? I would argue that it shouldn't. You are being employed for conclusions on images of varying quality and quantity of information, nothing else.

Andrew Schriever wrote:Is there a process in place for errors?

Yes, and the resolution process is outside the scope of this scenario... but you would be involved.

Thanks for your clarification questions, and I hope this helps!

-Kasey

When considering this subject many issues will impinge on the preferred hourly rate requested, the hourly rate offered and the hourly rate received.

If you are currently employed by a PD, bureau etc., there may already be restrictions on whether the individual can provide services outside of their current employment. This could be just a simple - you cannot provide alternative forensic services within your existing state (is this easy to determine if completed online), to - you cannot provide any services whatsoever outside your current employment, or - you have the full freedom to provide whatever you so choose.

Other considerations need to be embraced;
Declaring earnings received for state & federal tax and social security/Medicare etc
Will you be claiming part of your home as a working office (this may effect any profit on the future sale of your property) – further tax implications
Will you be claiming your computer (new decent sized flat panel required?), printer, software, ISP connectivity as possible tax deductions and if you do not have them already are you willing to buy them
Will back up archives be required of the images you receive
Retention of latent data received
Security of data
Will faster connectivity be required to enable suitable uploads and downloads of image data. Living in the boonies with dial up, may just not cut it.
How “keen” are your eyes after an earlier 8 – 10 hours of latent scrutiny at you normal workplace
Your “part time” employer will not be providing and of the normal workplace, health, pension and any other benefits, so this may also influence your decision.

All the above need to be accounted for and may have an impact of your expected hourly rate of pay, notwithstanding the interruptions from the “trouble & strife,” to clean the house, put the cat out, mow the yard, fix the broken …….. go to the mall etc,. etc,.
Working from home has its benefits, but it also has its distractions against concentration.

Graham F wrote:Other considerations need to be embraced

You bring up some great points... it would allow folks to claim deductions on any business-related expenses, such as their internet connection (which you are right... would need to be high-speed to be efficient), as well as things like their PC or laptop, physical work-space, etc. And of course any additional income should be claimed on taxes. Since this isn't full-time employment, no benefits would be included... just hourly wages.

Each examiner would have to be aware of their own agency requirements regarding part-time employment. User profiles would include their state, so separating such work shouldn't be a problem.

For this scenario retention of data would not be required, and security would be taken care of on the web server, and wouldn't go beyond login security on the client.

And lastly, the opportunity would probably not be pursued by folks such as Sharon who would not be interested in working more than 40 hours per week. Rather, this opportunity would be interesting to folks who aren't tired after 40 hours, and can manage their time in regards to other household duties. Or even perhaps for the examiner with several hundred vacation hours saved up with no intention to use them for travel away from the home... this would be an opportunity for essentially double-pay or more if they used vacation in combination with this opportunity.

Thank you for your comments.

-Kasey