CLPEX Chat Board

Having long argued for worldwide standards for fingerprint identification I welcome the Interpol European Expert Group on Fingerprint Identification report.

http://www.interpol.int/Public/Forensic ... ault.asp#1

As a layperson I wonder just how far experts across the world will endorse its findings and move towards the common standards goal.

Mr. Mckie, I personally like the IEFFG documents and think they are big step in the right direction. I will go one step further and say I believe that their documents are better than anything this country has produced when it comes to standards.

However they approach it from both a Holistic and Empirical philosophy and I would bet that approach would not go over in this country. Most in this country are buying into the concept that one shoe fits all.

I have had several LPE say they do not agree with the documents and that there are components that are not correct (according to their ideas of what is correct).

Overall I think it is a very good document and certainly worth the read and consideration. Besides being from Texas it has something the other standards in this country does not---pictures to explain what they are talking about.

Charles,

Can you share some of the things people might not think are correct (just for discussions sake)?

Michele---Sure

1st as I stated they discuss empirical and holistic philosophy. That topic is not discussed in the same matter here.

7.2.1
The value of the event is given by rarity..............

7.4.2
Some points have more value some less.............

7.6
Pattern Force (forced minutiae) (GOOD ONE)

7.8.1
For the determination of value basedon rarity....experts knowledge and experience form the primary basis.

7.8.5
Overlapping events/points count for one. (ANOTHER GOOD ONE)

7.9.1
Many names are given.......3 basic minutiae
FBI says 3 IAI says 5 SWGFAST says ???

7.10
Mirroring

7.14
Tracing (I CAN SEE SOME PASSING OUT)

8.5.2
If a difference of second level cannot be explained one has to regard this "unexplained difference" as a differnt d-point. Identification of the compared prints is prohibited.

8.10 Tolerances
The rule is threfore that: tolerances should not vary dependent on the quality of the impression. (OUCH)

Chapter 11---Who does that here for conflict resolution?????? When I mentioned this one time the response was "Oh for God's Sake--What Crap". I like C. 11.

PLEASE keep in mind that these are not what I consider as problems with the IEFFG document but what I belive in discussions with other LPE they would have a problem with them.

From my POV I give the IEFFG Document a 95. I like the pictures.

I have mentioned RARITY before and I have yet to see it in a SWGFAST document, discussed, or even listed as a definition in its glossary. I brought it up one time and I will not go into the response I was given.

The IEFFG talks a lot about rarity and what I do like is the concept of Pattern Force or Forced Ridges-------Point me in the direction that concept is in a SWGFAST document.

Now see you have punched a button and I have to go take a valium.

Just kidding---