Body fluids on black bags

[Philip Bekker]

This is my first venture on to your forum so Hi Everyone.

Any ideas to process black plastic refuse bags that were soaked with body fluids (putrefied body) for prints. The bags were air dried and a thick visible film of fatty material still present. I have used amido black as well as sudan black with very limited success on yellow and white bags in different cases.

Thank you for you time.

Philip Bekker

[Truthseeker]

Hi Philip

Unfortunately I am unable to assist with your technical query. However, I see that you are based in Port Elizabeth.

What do you have any thoughts on the Inge Lotz case and the testimony of your director Ruben Botha?

Why don't you pop in on the thread "Evidence Fabrication in South Africa"...

We would really appreciate your comment

[Pat A. Wertheim]

Dear Philip,

I am not the world's most proficient expert in the development of latent prints on a bag such as you described, but here are my thoughts. To begin with, I believe it would be prudent to abandon any idea of developing latent prints on the plastic that has been washed with body fluids that have subsequently dried. Concentrate on the plastic that was never wetted with bodied fluids.

If you have access to vacuum metal deposition, I believe the current literature gives that process a slight edge over other development techniques. The problem is that a single vacuum metal deposition chamber of sufficient size to process a large black plastic garbage bag would probably cost more than the entire South African Police annual budget for fingerprint equipment and supplies for the whole country. The second best alternative, I believe, would be cyanoacrylate fuming followed by a suitable dye stain technique and ALS exam, with photography to capture the latents that may develop.

Having said that, I know there are far more advanced experts in techniques of latent print development who read this site. I hope some of them can reply and point out newer, more sensitive techniques than those I have suggested.

In response to Truthseeker's comments, I can appreciate the position Philip is in, and in his place I would read all of the posts on the other threads (as I am sure he does) but I would not reply unless I were already retired. In the first place, SAPS probably has a policy against commenting publicly on such issues. In the second place, it could render the working conditions and interpersonal relationships in the workplace untenable. I would simply say that, in a similar situation in Scotland, I have found the vast majority of fingerprint experts highly supportive, but silent. Those who have spoken out publicly have suffered most grievously in their careers. Right or wrong is not a consideration. The Scottish experts who have supported the truth publicly may have had moral right on their side, but their careers have suffered nonetheless. In weighing the options, a single man with only his own welfare to consider may respond without regard for his personal situation, daring to lose his job rather than silently tolerating dishonesty among others in his agency. But a married man with a family, or any man with others who depend on him to some degree, may take those others into consideration when weighing his actions. Ethics would demand a person to speak up for the right regardless of consequences, but I, for one, would place little blame on him for remaining silent. I am sure Dave Grieve, our profession's most respected philosopher and ethicist, would have a better analysis than mine. I would dearly love to see his analysis of such a situation, as he used to give in his discourses during his tenure as editor of the Journal of Forensic Identification.

On the other hand, I keep hoping somebody from inside the SAPS will register under an anonymous moniker and give us some insight into the situation there. It would be wonderful if several SAPS experts registered, representing both the pros and cons of the situation. A word of advice -- I know that registration requires approval before a "member" is allowed to post, and I know that approval is restricted to those with an interest in fingerprints. Please just make that known if you chose to register anonymously.

Now, back to the topic at hand, won't someone with experience developing latent prints on black plastic bags coated in body fluids respond?

[H. B. James]

This is my first venture on to your forum so Hi Everyone.

Hi Philip,

You misjudge this forum. You own it as much as anyone else who posts here. And shame on those that would try to divert your attention away from this topic you started to others you might chose to remain silent on.

As for the black bag, Pat's suggestions mirror my own. Try superglue and dye stain on the areas of the bag not coated in body fluids.

[Steve Everist]

Philip,

At the IAI Conference in San Diego last year, Amanda Atkins from the US Army Criminal Investigation Laboratory did a presentation on a blood reagent for use on dark surfaces - Acid Yellow.

You can find a copy of her presentation at http://onin.com/fp/
You can download both the PowerPoint presentation and a PDF copy of the presentation.

This may give you some ideas and someone you could contact.

[Philip Bekker]

Thank you all for the replies and advise. Steve your pointer was helpful. It seems if Acid Yellow 7 might do the trick although I will need to experiment first. Apparently sequential fuming and staining can be done as well. I was hoping for a quick solution but in our work its never the case. Again thank you for your time. Now for the other issue.

As a serving police official I choose to remain silent on the Lotz case and my own ethics prevent me from posting anonymously. I do follow the dreaded SA tread with interest and had a good laugh at the rat comments. I am undecided - poor rats or poor police. It is comforting to know that so many people is passionate about truth and justice but please stay objective.

Philip Bekker

[antonroland]

Evening mate

How are you doing with those bags?

[Philip Bekker]

Hi Anton

Thank you for the interest. No joy yet - still sourcing the acid yellow via head office. I am counting the days like a kid before a Christmas tree. Fortunately other forensic evidential avenues opened up so the case is coming along nicely.

Philip Bekker