Paper prints still used?

[antonroland]

Please excuse if there are similar topics on here (I might even have started one some time back but I need a quick answer...)

Who still has paper files and what are they used for?

Who still classifies and files fingers and palms?

Are they classified at all or simply filed in another sequence (numerical/dated?) to check on bad quality AFIS comparisons?

Thanks very much for looking!

[Thomas Taylor]

In my small fingerprint unit, we still keep paper files of major case prints that we take ourselves. We store them in alphabetical order. The county sheriff has gone to live scan hooked into the state system. At the state level, everything is merged in electronic files, including mug shots, criminal history records, and fingerprints. I guess the national data bases are all electronic now, too, but I don't know for certain what the FBI does. I suspect this is true most places. Local fingerprint examiners in small departments are probably still mostly paper, larger cities and state files are probably all electronic, and the federal government is probably all electronic.

I have seen some of the live scan prints from the county sheriff. The fingerprints are very good quality, better than most inked prints they used to take. But the live scan palm system does not record the entire palm. I think the glass plate must not be big enough for full capture.

Hope this helps.

[antonroland]

Thanks Thomas

I am hoping to get a variety of responses from various types of agencies

I need this for a current work-study recommendation. Now I am unfortunately not at liberty to give out too much detail but the bottom line comes down to recommendations from all units in the greater business unit about returning to a dual paper and electronic system, especially for our non-AFIS equipped small units.

Personally, I grew up in an environment where classification, filing and paper based comparisons were the thing and I feel that new youngsters who do not get this grounding really lose out.

Anyway, I'm waffling...

Thanks for the response and hoping to get some more folks to respond here.

Have a great day all.

[Charles Parker]

antonroland----my department uses a combination but mostly digital. Since I work Cold Cases I still get a lot of the paper ones.

antonroland said

Personally, I grew up in an environment where classification, filing and paper based comparisons were the thing and I feel that new youngsters who do not get this grounding really lose out.

antonroland do you really think that gounding makes better LPE?

On a different thread Danny L. stated about teachng pattern interpretation and classification as it helps the examiner.

I have to admit I used to believe that and fought for it tooth and nail. But now I have to say from my PPOV that pattern interpretation and classification does not help a LPE very much. It is probably the least thing that will help them.

In testifying over *** (a bunch I think) times I have never been asked a question about pattern interpretation or classification. That does not mean they cannot ask as they can ask any of other non-consistent questions but not on those two topics.

But teaching classification rules----Henry is dead or dying and AFIS rules. In a few years it will be like Mira-Code and Brattley----How many of you know how to work Mira-Code or Brattley. Not many I bet. Classification is going the way of the DooDoo Bird. Even NCIC and TCIC Codes are not the same under Henry. AFIS Codes now rule the day.

Sorry antonroland and Danny---just speaking what I see in my crystal ball.

Maybe we should all start teaching the Latin as well.

[antonroland]

Charles thank you for a thorough reply.

I will attempt to reply in such a way as to cover all the points you raise. First, I do not disagree with your viewpoint on the way of the future but there are a few points of difference worth noting...

Yes AFIS is the future but down here not all of our units have it. We have to drive many miles to get to one and time is never unlimited when we do get AFIS time.

If we want to give efficient service we often have to be able to access paper prints.

We do not yet have live scan known records and so the quality of inked prints , as you will know, is not always great.

I am only too happy that we do not use Battley and Henry anymore but the main point of my original question (and what we are trying to address)
is the issue of keeping guys as proficient as possible whilst accepting that improvements in infrastructure do not happen at the snap of a finger.

If we cannot get our guys to work AFIS regularly enough to stay sharp on comparisons we (unfortunately) have to revert to paper. With this comes the old problem of ordering the collection...

I am curious to know if there are any other folks on here who are in a similar situation.

[Cindy Rennie]

"Classification is going the way of the DooDoo Bird."

Is that any relation to the "Foo bird"?

Just wondering....

[Gerald Clough]

Back to Anton's question...

There is a very wide range of local law enforcement agency situations in the U.S. The vast majority of agencies are quite small, and they are independent agencies, rather than being part of a larger system. That means there are some with newer technology and some with few resources, depending substantially on the local government's affluence. Relatively few maintain fingerprint files by classification. What I describe applies to two of my former agencies. They are not much different from a great many small agencies.

We did not have the resources to keep a dedicated local file. Print cards were attached to arrest records, in the case of the police department which had no jail, and to jail records, in the case of the sheriff's office. I maintained files of print records on those known to or suspected of being active in property crime. The population was small enough that these could be surveyed in a reasonable amount of time in checking scene latents. Very often, we dealt with strings of burglaries as one individual or group became active. Those suspected or known individuals' records could be held available to be checked against new cases and older cases that could fit their current activities. It had a lot to do with basic criminal intelligence.

This was quite productive in the city where nearly all crime was the work of locals. It was less so in the rural county, because many came from nearby larger cities and returned there after their crimes. In much of Texas, this works better than one might expect. Distances between towns, the very large size of some counties, and small populations (think in terms large counties, some as large as some states, with a population of less than 10,000 - not an unusual situation in the western states) tend to limit the criminal activities to local crooks. We were very dependent on the state agency's AFIS capabilities and the kind assistance of a nearby major city's latent unit, where they offered the double advantages of having AFIS records of every person booked and APIS records, neither being true of the state system. Many of the crooks active in the area had gone to town and had run foul of the big city police at one time or another. Of course, this varies among the states.

[Cindy Rennie]

Hello, Anton.

(The following information has sprung whole cloth from the top of my head and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of any other employee of the Toronto Police Service.)

The city of Toronto boasts almost two million inhabitants, with many more living in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) and coming in to "The Big Smoke" to work and/or play (and commit offences).

The Toronto Police Service has used paper prints since the beginning of time. (Well, almost! We have fingerprint forms on file dating back to the 1920's). We acquired AFIS technology over twenty years ago, but we still keep one "hard copy" Master set of each persons' fingerprints on file.

The fingerprint forms are filed by "MTP" number - an internally generated ID number that stays with an individual throughout their criminal career.

We use the hard copy of the fingerprint forms to verify the AFIS identifications, and to compare the fingerprints of suspects to latent impressions that are not clear enough to be loaded and searched on AFIS.

Prior to obtaining AFIS technology, we kept a file of "single fingerprints" that had been classified according to the Battley system, so that examiners could 'cold search' latents according to finger and Battley classification.

Ah, the good old days......

[antonroland]

Thanks Cindy

Indeed, the good old days...

I also have fond memories of a (very brief) visit to Toronto in 1983... that is 25 years ago...

Does the Seahorse Motel / Inn still even exist?

Also remember being up in the CN tower...

I'm waffling...thanks for the reply, very helpful.

I think our move away from paper prints was a bit hasty but let's see what the future holds.

Have a great day.

[Cindy Rennie]

Hi Anton.

I think that the Sea Horse Motel is still down on Lakeshore Blvd., but now it rents out rooms by the half-hour.