We just got a DEA case in which the suspects tried to hide the scent of drugs by wrapping a tupperware container in old-fashioned carbon paper and then a layer of saran wrap coated with motor oil. Of course they want latents in addition to the drug analysis.
The question is how to process the carbon paper. (Luckily, the oil has not gotten on the carbon paper, so that doesn't seem to be an issue.) Has anyone processed it before? Carbon paper is so archaic - we couldn't even find a piece to experiment on.
It's so thin - I'm concerned about disintegration. We also are unsure if any kind of heat/humidity will cause the carbon coating to cause some kind of undesirable affect.
Ideas?
Thanks!
Carbon paper??
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g.
- Posts: 247
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- Location: St. Paul, MN
Interesting!
I admit, I have NO experience with this, but I would certainly start with a full spectrum of wavelengths during an ALS exam (without any chemical treatment) and I would also consider oblique white light (side lighting). Given that the carbon-copy layer is like a thin layer of ink, there may be plastic impression in the ink.
Both of these techniques, obviously, are non-destructive, so no harm to explore.
I don't know about the "white" paper on the cover sheet, seems like the usual processes (DFO/Indanedione, Nin, PD) would be available. But I don't know!
Good luck, please keep us posted.
I admit, I have NO experience with this, but I would certainly start with a full spectrum of wavelengths during an ALS exam (without any chemical treatment) and I would also consider oblique white light (side lighting). Given that the carbon-copy layer is like a thin layer of ink, there may be plastic impression in the ink.
Both of these techniques, obviously, are non-destructive, so no harm to explore.
I don't know about the "white" paper on the cover sheet, seems like the usual processes (DFO/Indanedione, Nin, PD) would be available. But I don't know!
Good luck, please keep us posted.
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Gerald Clough
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I haven't tried it, but I see reference to super glue fuming for carbon paper. Makes sense. The carbon side is more non-absorbent surface than it is paper, and the paper is pretty hard. That was from the latent lab at the Virginia Department of Forensic Science. 804-786-6800
Folks who remember carbon paper, also likely remember what "Wind a watch" means and might not panic if they pulled into a gas station and a guy ran out and opened the hood of their car. All gone, like the 5-cent fountain cherry Coke.
Folks who remember carbon paper, also likely remember what "Wind a watch" means and might not panic if they pulled into a gas station and a guy ran out and opened the hood of their car. All gone, like the 5-cent fountain cherry Coke.
"Nothing has any value, unless you know you can give it up."
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Anna
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- Location: Miami, FL
Carbon paper
N Larsen -
Hi, I currently work as a Fingerprint Specialist for the DEA. So, I have some experience with the foreboding carbon paper. Everyone who posted all had good ideas. I do have an additional suggestion. Sometimes clear Scotch tape is used to hold the carbon paper together. Occasionally, because they have been handling the carbon paper, some of the ink actually gets transferred to the clear tape and the prints are visible. Other than that, superglue and dye stain are usually the route I end up going. In my experience, the paper has not disintegrated when using Pet Ether as the solvent in my R6G dye stain. Quite frankly, I would be more excited about the tupperware container that the paper was wrapped around ! I would say I gave my two cents worth, but I think I ended up giving you five cents.
Hi, I currently work as a Fingerprint Specialist for the DEA. So, I have some experience with the foreboding carbon paper. Everyone who posted all had good ideas. I do have an additional suggestion. Sometimes clear Scotch tape is used to hold the carbon paper together. Occasionally, because they have been handling the carbon paper, some of the ink actually gets transferred to the clear tape and the prints are visible. Other than that, superglue and dye stain are usually the route I end up going. In my experience, the paper has not disintegrated when using Pet Ether as the solvent in my R6G dye stain. Quite frankly, I would be more excited about the tupperware container that the paper was wrapped around ! I would say I gave my two cents worth, but I think I ended up giving you five cents.
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sandra wiese
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- Location: Colorado
got carbon?
Well, heck, I didn't think I was so old, but I actually OWN carbon paper. Be happy to mail you some if you haven't started and want to experiment --but if you have not tried hobby / craft stores, you might try there or your local Walgreens/CVS or whatever store might cater to um, well, more senior folks.
Next month I celebrate the first anniversary of my 39th birthday, so no way am I old! ; )
good luck!
Next month I celebrate the first anniversary of my 39th birthday, so no way am I old! ; )
good luck!
I keep 6 honest serving men
(they taught me all I knew)
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who.
-Rudyard Kipling
(they taught me all I knew)
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who.
-Rudyard Kipling
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i2cute4rensic
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Re: Carbon paper??
I just joined this site and was reading past entries - I know that is won’t help you now on that case but for future cases.
I also had a case that the DEA did not want to processes that involved over a hundred sheets of carbon paper wrapped in the black stretchy film with the drugs. I processed the sheets of carbon paper using Ninhydrin for Thermal and Carbonless Papers. It worked great! It developed beautiful prints that I then photographed.
I also had a case that the DEA did not want to processes that involved over a hundred sheets of carbon paper wrapped in the black stretchy film with the drugs. I processed the sheets of carbon paper using Ninhydrin for Thermal and Carbonless Papers. It worked great! It developed beautiful prints that I then photographed.
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briano
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Re: Carbon paper??
Believe it or not but Office Depot still sells carbon paper and typewriters.
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Cindy Rennie
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Re: Carbon paper??
Typewriters?
Cindy Rennie
Senior Fingerprint Technician
SOCO Case Manager
Toronto Police Service
cynthia.rennie@torontopolice.on.ca
Senior Fingerprint Technician
SOCO Case Manager
Toronto Police Service
cynthia.rennie@torontopolice.on.ca
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sandra wiese
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:47 pm
- Location: Colorado
Re: Carbon paper??
Uh, huh. Right next to the sealing wax and ink wells.
I keep 6 honest serving men
(they taught me all I knew)
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who.
-Rudyard Kipling
(they taught me all I knew)
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who.
-Rudyard Kipling
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antonroland
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- Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa
Re: Carbon paper??
What is a typewriter?
Make a difference day by day, case by case. If you don't make a difference you don't count.
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sharon cook
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- Location: Austin, Texas
Re: Carbon paper??
Well, young whippersnapper, back in The Dark Ages (when I was a girl), space aliens brough a 200-lb machine to earth that had "keys." When you bashed the hell out of a key, a metal tab smashed into an inked strip which then crashed into a piece of paper you "rolled" into the machine and made a letter or number or other strange marks appear on the paper. There's more to the tale, but I'll save that for our next class: "How Space Aliens Saved Literature." (True story)
Take responsibility for your own actions