Postmortem Livescan?

[Pat A. Wertheim]

I have been contacted by a Medical Examiner who is looking for information and a possible device for taking livescan prints from cadavers. Does anybody know of a livescan device that would be easy to use in that situation?

[Ann Horsman]

Couldn't they just de-glove the corpse and try using the livescan?

[Pat A. Wertheim]

I get it -- If you can't take the machine to the finger, take the finger to the machine. Sweet!

But seriously, that may be a good option. I will be at the California Division conference next week so I will see what the vendors might suggest.

BTW, for all my West Coast friends, I will be doing a couple of workshops (8 hours) on preparing for the CLPE test. If you are thinking about certification this summer, sign up for the workshop. I'd love to fill 'em both up.

[Boyd Baumgartner]

Hi Pat,

There's a couple different options your ME friends have. Full on integration with mobile livescan products like Cogent is currently offering

http://www.cogentsystems.com/BlueCheck.asp
http://www.cogentsystems.com/MobileIdentII.asp#

This obviously requires integration with existing AFIS infrastructure or the ability to import NIST packages from an outside source with all the logistics of getting them from the ME to the law enforcement agency to be run against the AFIS database.

Alternatively, you could see if there's any mobile livescan companies in the area that can come and attempt to capture fingerprints and then generate a 10 Print card that could be scanned by a law enforcement agency into their AFIS for comparison.

An example of such a service can be found here: http://www.livescansd.com/mobile.htm

Hope it helps,

Boyd

[printlady]

Our ME is using live scan to collect prints from cadavers and email them to us via secure network connection. Since our offices are across town from each other this is a real time saver. We are then able to compare to a known or conduct an AFIS search using the digital image. Ids are completed in a matter of minutes rather than the day or two we used to need. The portable live scan units were purchased with grant funding secured by the ME for major disasters since they can be used in the field. We have successfully used them to id victims in homicides before the body even makes it to the morgue.

[Bill]

Hi Pat,

There were several (50 or more) hand-held devices distributed throughout various jurisdictions in our area. If I recall correctly, someone had some success with an on-scene corpse. This device also has a camera that can upload for facial recognition. I think it is a Datastrip. The operator scans in two fingers, and it searches the AFIS databases in our region. We have three interoperable AFIS systems in the DC area. Most of the time, the officers use it when a suspect has no ID and is detained on a traffic or street stop. The information received back in about two minutes give the name (I think) and the fingerprint file ID number. It is up to the officer to utilize other databases to query criminal history information, such as their central records or NCIC.

I can look into it tomorrow when I get back. If not tomorrow, the guru whoworks on these will be out Monday thru Wednesday of next week. I can obtain more detailed explanations at that time if you wish.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Bill
FCPD (Va)

[Kathleen Birnbaum]

Hi Pat,

While I think the idea could have merit, I see some areas of consideration that may need to be overcome. They would need to put more effort into their taking of prints than they have in the past. With the livescan they may be required to do the "Rock and Roll" method of placement to center the print and then rock backwards, then roll nail-to-nail. Many times prints from recently deceased which should have reflected excellent quality prints, instead give smears and smudges. It is the lack of effort on the part of the person taking the print rather than the source of the print. I am wary of the livescan used in the manner you are asking about, that I see as a wonderful tool not properly used. I can not imagine them putting more effort utilizing something that requires more practice and finesse than they did before. Will they put the effort into learning the equipment, the method, the process? It would be nice to get more quality prints, but I am sceptical. LIke anything, you need to be willing to put the effort in the first place. They will get out of it what they put in, and there lies the rub that I am concerned about. That rub can definitely reflect which machine would be the better choice for them to consider if indeed this comes to pass.

[jpadilla5]

Pat,

Did you get an answer at the conference? Cogent has that sort of device. Our officers and coroner use them all of the time.

http://www.cogentsystems.com/BlueCheck.asp


L-1 Identity Solutions also has this http://www.l1id.com/pages/52-ibis This is what our department uses.

[Pat A. Wertheim]

Yes, thank you. I stopped by the Cogent booth and got brochures, a DVD, and the little rubber model they hand out. I'll have a nice packet of information to give the Medical Examiner this week and then it's up to her to phone their sales representative and arrange a demonstration. They take excellent inked post mortems. I think they just want something cleaner, faster, and more convenient for the job.

Thanks to all who have contributed suggestions. I suggested to the ME from the start that she follow this discussion and do her own follow up, which I'm sure she did.