Endless postings about the McKie case...

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Dick Dastardly
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Endless postings about the McKie case...

Post by Dick Dastardly »

As I review the postings on the McKie case, there seem to be the same points coming up again and again with constant mantras by the SCRO supporters, and no doubt SCRO themselves.

...

For my own part, I don't intend to post again unless there is something new.

...

Does anyone have the full notes of evidence from the McKie case and the Asbury case, to let us all see how open all the witnesses were?
clpexco
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Re: Endless postings about the McKie case...

Post by clpexco »

I have deleted portions of the above post, as well as several subsequent posts that prompted an escalation in verbal banter that I felt went beyond the best interests of this forum. The original author was close to the line, and responders were far over it. Please continue to remember this forum will be around long after we are, and the professionalism, or lack thereof, will be here representing our discipline indefinitely. I don't take this liberty often, and I hope we can keep that trend in the future. Thank you for your respect of this request.

-Kasey Wertheim
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charlton97
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Fingerprint Society Lectures 2007

Post by charlton97 »

I want to ask if this constant baiting and counter attack is helping the fingerprint science?

I think this will continue until the Society and the IAI issue a joint communication for the good of the science that asks law enforcement and politicians alike for the original material (or agreed material of evidential quality if original is not available) so that a technical decision can be reached by a consensus of global experts. This data should be independently validated by an academic body and the scientific findings should be published for the Police authorities and for the science to digest.

I think this is the way to go for the professional bodies. Not another contrversial lecture at another conference that will breed more allegations and counter allegations for ever and a day.



Mr Les Brown (a speaker at this year's Fingerprint Society conference)
Les Brown

Independent Investigator and

Author

Abstract:


In March of 2006 I was approached by officers of SCRO to assist them in their fight to clear their names relative to Shirley McKie case. I was astounded to learn that two days after agreeing to assist and as a result of a phone call from Iain Mckie to my co-founder, A Search for Justice was dispanded.
This only served to make me more determined to investigate the McKie case and discover if she did gain entry to the murder house, who let her in etc. I am assisting SCRO on a voluntary basis, my slogan being, ''If Shirley McKie has told the truth she has nothing to fear from my investigations''.
adroitcaledonian
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Post by adroitcaledonian »

Hi Dave,

Although I agree with the principle, do you think that a series of BBC documentaries was the best place for others to discuss this matter?

The whole thing began as an attack on the SCRO and then expanded to the MacNamara case, almost spread to the Sutherland and Sinclair cases, now if you look at all of these cases, can you tell me if any of the same names keep cropping up?

Are these people particualrly successful at challenging the evidence?

Maybe ask yourself who is doing the real damage to the reputation of fingerprinting.

A quick poser:
Who said the following (in bold):
Mr. Wright: So you take the view that British Experts are not up to it is that what...?
Mr. ?: No they are not and ACPO know that and it is time somebody did something about it.

Les Brown hasn't brought fingerprinting into disrepute.
Les Brown isn't a member of the CRFP.
Les Brown hasn't had to admit any errors during the process of publicly challenging the work of others.

Where would you draw these global experts from?
If you don't approve of baiting and counter attacks then that really excludes anybody on the Zeelenberg petition.

As an aside:

Did you know that the charity Iain McKie has chosen to benefit from the money he hopes to make from the murder of Marion Ross shall help to campaign for the release of Patrick Docherty?

Mojo, who also campaign for David Asbury also now campaign for the man that Wertheim Senior and McKie Senior have strongly suggested should be investigated further (following Strathclyde Police's prior elimination of this person) in relation to the murder of Marion Ross.

It would be very ironic if the money Iain Mckie has pledged to give to Mojo was used to help free a person named in McKies book as the potential murderer.
No Lie Lasts Forever
Daktari
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Location: Glasgow

Post by Daktari »

It is disappointing, but not terribly surprising, to see Dave Charlton call an end to constant baiting and counter attack then go on to have a go at Les Brown! The same Dave was glad to be associated with McKie when they had the field to themselves and the SCRO Officers could not respond to the misinformation being circulated. Dave even has some of Iain McKie's interviews on his website.
Together with his colleague, Itiel 'Bottom' Dror, Dave produced so-called independent scientific research into intuitively obvious propositions. Needless to say, since the word mistake was prominent TeamMcKie immediately seized upon it. Trouble is, that little of this work can be replicated or verified since it depended on unnamed sources, 'covert' operations, etc. Interestingly enough, on one piece (posted on shirleymckie.com), when I checked out the persons contained in the Acknowledgements all bar one (whom I was unable to check)) had either signed the McKie-Zeelenberg petition or were connected to the McKie campaign in some other tangible way. Dave has since tried to distance himself, but it there is too much on record placing him firmly in TeamMcKie's camp.
Three things prevent this issue from disappearing. One is Asbury's claim for compensation that if awarded, might prove too much for certain people to stomach. After all, Shirley never killed anyone (as far as that I know) and there were other cops, with careers and pensions, to protect.
Secondly is the prospect of Employment Tribunals (ETs) if the SCRO six are sacked. Under UK law, ETs are Courts of Law so there may be six opportunities to compel witnesses to appear, six opportunities to cross examine witnesses, six opportunities to obtain Orders for Disclosure of Documents and six opportunities to Appeal. The rules on Perjury and Contempt also apply in ETs.
Lastly there are the ongoing investigations into particular key players, to include, some of McKie's solicitors, David Mulhern, Allan Bayle and not forgetting certain police officers in 'U' division. Sorry folks but it seems this if far from over.
Talking of Allan Bayle, not that many do nowadays, is he the answer to Adroit’s poser? I seem to remember he made a similar remark during the Brazil-Revitt trial, last year.
charlton97
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Oh dear

Post by charlton97 »

You know, I remember a TV series from the sixties. Yes, I am old enough!! It was called Daktari. It featured a one eyed lion called Clarence. Maybe there is more than a little 'short sightedness' being displayed here in keeping with the said name tag.

Look, I post a request for a proper scientific discussion and I get pilloried because I had the stupidity to post my own name on a web forum!! If someone is going to insult me as well as globally respected academic experts perhaps they would have the good grace to say who they are instead of hiding behind a veil. I am man enough to say what I believe with regard to my academic beliefs. That does not make me an apologist with an agenda for any one side in this whole affair. I have taken flack from all sides in this debate for many years. I say 'a plague on both your houses'!!

Yes, for sure I did say at one time that the Society should invite the protagonists to debate this matter in front of the Fingerprint society. I did indeed act as broker in getting Iain McKie to speak at a Society Lecture. I have indeed written to many influencial people to get thsi matter resolved through the actions of experts in their field, and not the politicians or ACPO.

In the end, I have tried to bring people to the table. It is the people at the centre of all this that refuse to meet or discuss issues round a table.

To try to discredit peer reviewed academic endeavour is to demean your own position, whoever you are Daktari. Far from being on the outside of scientific thought within forensic science, the research into confirmation bias has been quite readily accepted by the vast majority of legal, law enforcement and forensic specialists. Daubert hearings, numerous citations and official reports into erroneous identifications all point to emphasise that biasing effects and other influences are very very real in latent print examination. Deny the earth is round by all means. But believe me, the earth is not flat at all!

Who are you Daktari? You hide behind a flimsy veil of anonymity, yet you seek to rubbish so much of the debate that is good on this web site. What are you afriad of?

I echo what I said in a recent posting, this type of debate does little credit to the forensic community and the fingerprint profession in particular. Unless we can discuss this like adults there is no hope for the general public accepting our profession as anything other than a rag tag of pseudo experts who make assertions based on smoke and mirrors. We are better than that, aren't we??

Good science is about having an idea, assessing the hypothesis, testing it, repeating it, then drawing conclusions. I can tell you that academic peers feel that the research conducted by Dr Dror and myself is beyond academic reproach. You cannot question what has ben accepted within the academic world as sound research. I would not have been honoured this year with the British Psychological Society Junior award for outstanding research had my work with Dr Dror have been anything other than groundbreaking or of the highest quality.

I say again Daktari, who are you? I know who I am and what I believe. This forum and the wider scientific community knows my beliefs. If you or anybody else disagrees with reserach then great!! Conduct your own verifiable research by all means and assess your own findings. But please, be objective. I have.

There is no place for the sort of personal attack that you Daktari seem to find so amusing. It is cheap, easy to do, and really not very clever. I would respect you more if you would identify yourself and come clean as to who you are and who you represent. I really do have no agenda and I have never said what I believe to be the truth about the McKie mark. What good would it do now. No, what I want is to ensure that this type of contriversy never happens again. Never again must we witness this type of event where we as a profession have failed to police ourselves effectively.

As for Mr Les Brown speaking at this year's conference? Well, yes, on balance you could argue Mr mcKie has had his say to the conference, so why not have a point of view from the other side. But you are so wrong when you suggest I am attacking Mr Brown. Where in my earlier posting do I do that? As usual you try to manipulate words and turn them against people, remanufacturing reality and truth. I may be critical of the Society for re-opening festering wounds, but Mr Brown has every right to find a platform wherever he can find one. I just think it is bad timing really.

I am happy to engage in a sensible debate. Are you up for the challenge Daktari? Or are you too comfortable behind your invisible cloak?
Daktari
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Post by Daktari »

In the article Why Experts Make Errors written by Itiel E. Dror and David Charlton, published in Journal of Forensic Identification, 614 / 56 (4), 2006
part of the conclusion states ‘There is no possibility of 100% objectivity’ .
Let’s test this hypotheses by taking a look at the authors, contributors and some of work drawn upon.
First, we would like to acknowledge and thank our collaborators in the fingerprint world, both those participating in our studies and those helping us in conducting our research. We would also like to thank Ailsa Peron for discussing different aspects of this work and Alan McRoberts, Robert Rosenthal, Arie Zeelenberg,Cedric Neumann, John Vanderkolk, and anonymous reviewers for comments on earlier versions of this paper
.

Itiel Dror

Appeared on NewsnightScotland immediately after the February settlement with a cock-eyed theory about how contexts affect judgement. This experiment involved student volunteers being asked to compare pairs of fingerprints. Dror did not mention on air that subliminal messages like ‘same’ and ‘guilty’ had been flashed onto the Computer screen during the experiment.

David Charlton
Has tried to distance himself (on internet postings) from Zeelenberg and has admitted the study is not relevant to the McKie scandal. However his website
http://www.david.charlton97.btinternet.co.uk/page3.htm
features BBC interviews with Mike Russell and Iain McKie, an update and a link to that website! McKie opened his address to the Fingerprint Society at Cardiff (2002) by applauding, inter alia, “ people like Dave Charlton who have encouraged my attendance.”

Arie Zeelenburg
originator of Internet Petition

Alan McRoberts
signatory on Internet Petition

John Vanderkolk
signatory on Internet Petition

Cedric Neumann
spoke at a Symposium on Feb 28, 2006
along with Glenn Langenburg, Michael Mansfield, David Ashbaugh (Bayle’s mentor)

referenced sources include
Rudin, N & Inman, K CAC News Qtr 2 2005, that drew on material by David Ashbaugh and Iain McKie
only one other fingerprint misidentification, the
McKie/Asbury case in Scotland, has even been reviewed
page 6


Glenn Langenburg, (signatory on Internet Petition)
Defending against Critic’s Curse,
an original article for CLPEX.com September, 2002
Rarely is the problem, other than the McKie case, that examiners maintain their opinion of an erroneous identification page 6

Michael Mansfield,
Appeared on Panorama and has supported Bayle in the past (McNamara).
Called for all Scottish cases involving the four experts at the Scottish Criminal Record Office's fingerprint bureau involved in the McKie case to be reviewed. (Scotsman, March 30, 2006)
Sorry Michael but it’s been done already and over 1300 cases were found to be 100%correct!

David Ashbaugh
In the delightfully named ChilliwackTimes of December 9, 2003 we find Ashbaugh linked to Lockerbie His expertise in fingerprint identification has been used to assist in securing the conviction of an individual involved in bringing down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie....(Untrue, like Bayle, Ashbaugh allows this myth to go uncorrected)
And on
http://onin.com/fp/wwwbd/messages/6/140 ... 1032559220

a certain Iain McKie tells us,
On 19 September (2002) Allan Bayle and Michael Russell, Shirley’s Member of the Scottish Parliament, handed in a unique petition to the Scottish Parliament on behalf of Allan, David Grieve, Pat Wertheim and Arie Zeelenberg. ...........
They have asked the Scottish Parliament to call on the services of Canadian expert David Ashbaugh to examine the situation and, ...........

Iain McKie (for it is he)
CLPEX Detail Dec. 20, 2004 page 2
Having suffered 8 years of cover up and deception from SCRO I appreciated a ‘fingerprint’ organisation sponsoring such an article (Langenburg’s)

In such company, many would agree, there is indeed ‘no possibility of 100% objectivity’.
charlton97
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Still tryin'

Post by charlton97 »

Daktari,

you cannot in all seriousness rubbish the entire who's who of the fingerprint community to make a point that is tenuous at best. There was once a documentary series made by a chap by the name of James Burke who made a series of programs called 'Connections'. In this scientific voyage of discovery he managed in a half hour programme each week to make connections between scientists and inventions along the lines of if such and such had not invented something in the middle ages then we would not have space shuttles today. All very interesting, amusing, plausible yes, but not brillient science. But it did make a damn fine TV show.

We can all make similar connections within this case of course. But what is the point Daktari? If I could really be bothered I could rehash the connections between people on your side of the divide (there are many and various of course). But I am not going to go down this route.

I am a scientist and I expect challenge to my research. But you seem to be happy to revel in administering trite comments without ever having a counter hypothesis? Come on, be constructive for a change and suggest how we might move forward to benefit the profession. To move away from this line of attack and to join me in searching for answers. Are you up for it?
charlton97
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Cock eyed??

Post by charlton97 »

Itiel Dror
Appeared on NewsnightScotland immediately after the February settlement with a cock-eyed theory about how contexts affect judgement.


A cock eyed theory??

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OCHOA, T.A., 1999. … disruptive students' teachability through awareness of confirmation bias and redirecting attention …. [not cited] (0/year)
PATINO, H., Reducing confirmation bias in clinical decision-making: Eli I. J Dent Educ 60: 831, 1996. [not cited] (?/year)
PAYNE, C.R., 2002. … Model of Sexual Harassment: Situational Primes, Individual Differences, and Confirmation Bias. Unpublished master's prospectus. [not cited] (0/year)
RABIN, M. and J. SCHRAG, 1997. Confirmation Bias. Berkeley Department of Economics Working Paper, University …. [Cited by 1] (0.11/year)
RABIN, M. and J. SCHRAG, 1999. First Impressions Matter: A Model of Confirmation Bias. Quarterly Journal of Economics. [Cited by 9] (1.28/year)
RABIN, M. and J.L. SCHRAG, 1999. FIRST IMPRESSIONS MATTER: A MODEL OF CONFIRMATORY BIAS. Technology. [Cited by 113] (16.12/year)
RABIN, M., kley. SCHRAG (1997)“First impressions matter: a model of confirmatory bias”. Working paper n? 97-250, U. California at Ber. [Cited by 2] (?/year)
ROBLES, J., 1996. Confirmation Bias in Structural Equation Modeling.. Structural Equation Modeling. [Cited by 4] (0.40/year)
ROMERO, H.A., 1997. An analysis of the effect of confirmation bias on industrial radiography. [not cited] (0/year)
SCHRAG, J.L., 1999. FIRST IMPRESSIONS MATTER: A MODEL OF CONFIRMATORY BIAS. The Quarterly Journal of Economics. [not cited] (0/year)
SILVERMAN, B.G., 1992. Modeling and critiquing the confirmation bias in human reasoning. Systems, Man and Cybernetics, IEEE Transactions on. [Cited by 2] (0.14/year)
STEWART, I., 2002. Focus on Error Prevention Confirmation bias. CANADIAN PHARMACEUTICAL JOURNAL. [not cited] (0/year)
STONE, R., 2001. … bias: virtue or vice?: investigating the decision-theoretic implications of confirmatory bias. [not cited] (0/year)
STROHMER, D.C. and V.A. SHIVY, 1994. Bias in counselor hypothesis testing: Testing the robustness of counselor confirmatory bias. Journal of Counseling & Development. [Cited by 10] (0.83/year)
TOLBERT, C.A., 1983. The confirmation bias as a function of level of training, hypothesis form and problem content. [not cited] (0/year)
TOLCOTT, M.A. and F.F. MARVIN, 1988. Reducing the confirmation bias in an evolving situation. [Cited by 2] (0.11/year)
TOLCOTT, M.A., F.F. MARVIN and T.A. BRESNICK, 1989. The confirmation bias in military situation assessment. Proceedings of the 57 thMORS Symposium. [Cited by 7] (0.41/year)
WARD, S.G., 2000. DECISION SUPPORT FOR WHAT-IF ANALYSIS AND THE CONFIRMATION BIAS. JOURNAL OF COMPUTER INFORMATION SYSTEMS. [not cited] (0/year)
WHITE, M.J., 1993. Confirmatory Bias in Evaluating Personality Test Information: Am I Really That Kind of Person?.. Journal of Counseling Psychology. [Cited by 3] (0.23/year)
YARIV, L., I'll See It When I Believe It. uni-bonn.de. [Cited by 5] (?/year)
charlton97
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:51 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Connections

Post by charlton97 »

Daktari,

were any of these connected to the 'McKie camp'??

, C.O.&.#.3.9.;.R.E.I.L.L.Y., 1989. The Confirmation Bias in Special Education Eligibility Decisions.. School Psychology Review. [Cited by 2] (0.12/year)
ANDERSON, M.M., An Empirical Investigation to Detect the Presence of Confirmation Bias in the Decision-making …. [not cited] (?/year)
ANG, D., 1992. An investigation into the use of a decision support system to reduce the confirmation bias. Unpublished Master of Computing Minor Thesis. Monash …. [Cited by 1] (0.07/year)
ASK, K. and P.A. GRANHAG, 2005. Motivational sources of confirmation bias in criminal investigations: the need for cognitive closure. Journal of Investigative Psychology and Offender Profiling. [not cited] (0/year)
BARON, J., 1981. An analysis of confirmation bias. [Cited by 1] (0.04/year)
BARRICK, J.A., C.B. CLOYD and B.C. SPILKER, 2000. Does the review process mitigate confirmation bias in tax research. [Cited by 1] (0.17/year)
BECKER, A.S., 1993. Distraction and confirmation bias in hypothesis testing. [not cited] (0/year)
BEN-SHAKHAR, G., et al., 1997. Seek and ye shall find: A confirmation bias in clinical judgment. Paper preented at te. [not cited] (0/year)
BERNDSEN, M., et al., 1996. Expectation-based and data-based illusory correlation: the effects of confirming versus …. European journal of social psychology. [Cited by 4] (0.40/year)
BIERHOFF, H.W. and R. KLEIN, 1989. Expectations, confirmation bias, and suggestibility. VA Gheorghiu, P. Netter, HJ Eysenck y R. Rosenthal, …. [Cited by 2] (0.12/year)
BLANKENHORN, B.L., 1995. … of positive/negative information seeking employment interview questions: confirmatory bias …. [not cited] (0/year)
BRUZAN, M.A., 1997. Effects of interview structure on prevalence of confirmatory bias and prediction of future job …. [not cited] (0/year)
BURCHELL, B.J., 1986. Confirmation Bias and the Testing of Hypotheses about Other People. University of Warwick. [not cited] (0/year)
CHANDON, P. and B. WANSINK, 2005. The Low-Calorie Curse: Confirmation Bias, Calorie Estimation, and Calorie Consumption for Vice and …. [Cited by 1] (0.99/year)
CHITWOOD, S.T. and R.D. TWENEY, 1995. Why confirmation bias? The epistemological environment of scientjic experiment. Manuscript submitted for publication. [Cited by 1] (0.09/year)
CHOO, T., 1991. Research on confirmation bias in accounting: Achievement and prognosis. [Cited by 1] (0.07/year)
COHEN, M.R., 1995. Confirmation bias; focus on narcotics accidents; Revia? and Revex? name confusion. Hospital Pharmacy. [not cited] (0/year)
DARDENNE, B. and J.P. LEYENS, 1995. Confirmation bias as a social skill. Pers. Soc. Psychol. Bull. [Cited by 2] (0.18/year)
DARLEY, J.M. and P.H. GROSS, 1983. A hypothesis-confirmation bias in labeling effects. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. [Cited by 2] (0.09/year)
DAVE, C. and K.W. WOLFE, 2004. On Confirmation Bias and Deviations From Bayesian Updating. [Cited by 1] (0.50/year)
DAVIES, M.F., 2003. Confirmatory Bias in the Evaluation of Personality Descriptions: Positive Test Strategies and Output …. JOURNAL OF PERSONALITY AND SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY. [not cited] (0/year)
DAVIS, N.M., 1994. Combating confirmation bias.. Am J Nurs. [not cited] (0/year)
DAWSON, N.V. and O. CLEVELAND, 1995. Cognitive Limitations and Methods for Improving Judgments: Implications for Establishing Medically …. Proceedings of. [Cited by 2] (0.18/year)
ELEJALDE, J.U., ANARCHISM, POSTMODERNISM AND REALISM UNDER CONFIRMATORY BIAS. juan.urrutiaelejalde.org. [not cited] (?/year)
ELI, I., 1996. Reducing confirmation bias in clinical decision-making. Journal of Dental Education. [Cited by 2] (0.20/year)
FRIEDRICH, J., 1993. … and minimization (PEDMIN) strategies in social cognition: a reinterpretation of confirmation bias …. Psychol Rev. [Cited by 101] (7.76/year)
FUNCTION, F., Political Media Contests and Confirmatory Bias. ideas.repec.org. [not cited] (?/year)
GALLIMORE, P., 1996. Confirmation bias in the valuation process: a test for corroborating evidence. Journal of Property Research. [Cited by 15] (1.50/year)
GARRISON, J.W. and K. HOSKISSON, 1989. Confirmation Bias in Predictive Reading.. Reading Teacher. [Cited by 2] (0.12/year)
GREEN, D.W., 1990. Confirmation bias, problem-solving and cognitive models. Advances in psychology. [Cited by 5] (0.31/year)
HARDMAN, D., 1998. Does Reasoning Occur on the Selection Task? A Comparison of Relevance-based Theories. Thinking & Reasoning. [Cited by 8] (1.00/year)
HARRIS, E.G. and T.J. BROWN, 1999. Understanding the Confirmatory Bias of Expectation on Performance Perceptions: The Moderating …. Frontiers in Services Conference, Nashville, TN, October. [Cited by 3] (0.43/year)
HAVERKAMP, B.E., 1993. Confirmatory Bias in Hypothesis Testing for Client-Identified and Counselor Self-Generated …. Journal of Counseling Psychology. [Cited by 9] (0.69/year)
ITINERARY, M., et al., A Motivation to Disconfirm Can Be More Problematic Than a Confirmation Bias. psychologicalscience.org. [not cited] (?/year)
ITINERARY, M., et al., The Effects of Depressive Symptomology on Confirmation Bias. psychologicalscience.org. [not cited] (?/year)
JACOBSSON, A., 2002. Political media contests and confirmatory bias. ne.su.se. [not cited] (0/year)
JENSEN, H.K., 1993. Confirmation bias shown in a simulated courtroom: prejudicial recall of information against American …. [not cited] (0/year)
JOHNSON, J.E., 1987. Do You Think You Might Be Wrong? Confirmation Bias in Problem Solving.. Arithmetic Teacher. [Cited by 2] (0.11/year)
JONAS, E., et al., 2001. Confirmation bias in sequential information search after preliminary decisions: an expansion of …. J Pers Soc Psychol. [Cited by 36] (7.18/year)
JONES, M. and R. SUGDEN, 2001. Positive confirmation bias in the acquisition of information. Theory and Decision. [Cited by 9] (1.80/year)
KEMPTON, J., 2002. Potential effects of the confirmation bias in house condition surveys Jim Kempton, Amir Alani, Keith …. Structural Survey. [Cited by 3] (0.75/year)
KLAYMAN, J., 1995. Varieties of Confirmation Bias In JR Busemeyer, R. Hastie, & DL Medin. Decision Making from the Perspective of Cognitive Psychology. [Cited by 1] (0.09/year)
KLAYMAN, J., 1995. Varieties of confirmation bias. The Psychology of Learning and Motivation. [Cited by 55] (5.00/year)
KLEIN, J.G., 2005. Five pitfalls in decisions about diagnosis and prescribing. British Medical Journal. [Cited by 4] (3.96/year)
KOPPELAAR, L., A. LANGE and J.W. VAN, 1997. … on the assessment of rape victims; An experimental study of expectancy-confirmation bias. International Review of Victimology. [Cited by 3] (0.33/year)
KOSLOWSKI, B. and M. MAQUEDA, 1993. What Is Confirmation Bias and When Do People Actually Have It?.. Merrill-Palmer Quarterly. [Cited by 12] (0.92/year)
KOSNIK, L.E.A.R.D., Refusing to Budge: A Confirmatory Bias in Decision Making?. papers.ssrn.com. [not cited] (?/year)
KOSNIK, L.E.A.R.D., Evidence in Support of a Directional Confirmatory Bias Effect. umsl.edu. [not cited] (?/year)
KREMS, J.F. and C. ZIERER, 1994. Sind Experten gegen kognitive T?uschungen gefeit? Zur Abh?ngigkeit des confirmation bias von …. Zeitschrift f?r experimentelle und angewandte Psychologie. [Cited by 1] (0.08/year)
KREMS, J.F. and C. ZIERER, 1994. Are experts immune to cognitive bias? Dependence of" confirmation bias" on specialist knowledge. Z Exp Angew Psychol. [not cited] (0/year)
KREMS, J.F. and C. ZIERER, 1994. Are experts immune to cognitive bias? Dependence of confirmation bias on specialist knowledge ( …. Zeitscrift f?r Experimental Angew Psychology. [Cited by 1] (0.08/year)
KVITASTEIN, O.A., B. ADMINISTRATION and B. SNF, Does Qualitative Inquiry Imply Confirmation Bias IN Evaluation Studies?. fteval.at. [not cited] (?/year)
LADKIN, P.B., 1997. Inside risks: risks of technological remedy. Communications of the ACM. [Cited by 2] (0.22/year)
LEHMAN, D.R., et al., 1992. The focus of judgment effect: A question wording effect due to hypothesis confirmation bias. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin. [Cited by 2] (0.14/year)
LEVENTHAL, L.M., 1993. How Confirmation Bias Affects Novice Programmers in Testing and Debugging: Research Strategies and …. NATO ASI SERIES F COMPUTER AND SYSTEMS SCIENCES. [not cited] (0/year)
LEWICKA, M., 2000. Confirmation bias and positive-negative asymmetry. POLISH PSYCHOLOGICAL BULLETIN. [not cited] (0/year)
MAHONEY, M.J. and B.G. DEMONBREUN, 1977. Psychology of the scientist: An analysis of problem-solving bias. Cognitive Therapy and Research. [Cited by 28] (0.97/year)
MAHONEY, M.J. and B.G. DEMONBREUN, 1977. Confirmatory bias in scientists and non-scientists. Cognitive Therapy and Research. [Cited by 2] (0.07/year)
MAHONEY, M.J., 1977. Publication prejudices: An experimental study of confirmatory bias in the peer review system. Cognitive Therapy and Research. [Cited by 99] (3.41/year)
MARKS, M.J. and R.C. FRALEY, 2006. Confirmation Bias and the Sexual Double Standard. Sex Roles. [not cited] (0/year)
MARTIN, J.M., Hypothesis Testing: Confirmatory Bias in Regard to Clinician Training and Hypothesis Source. [not cited] (?/year)
MARTIN, J.M., 2000. Confirmation Bias in the Therapy Session: The Effects of Expertise, External Validity, Instruction …. [Cited by 1] (0.17/year)
MCALLISTER, M., Doing practice differently: solution-focused nursing. ingentaconnect.com. [Cited by 6] (?/year)
MCKENZIE, C.R.M., Memory and Cognition. … to Differentially Diagnostic Answers Using Familiar Materials: Implications for Confirmation Bias. [Cited by 1] (?/year)
MCMILLAN, J.J. and R.A. WHITE, 1993. … and Evidence Search: The Effect of Hypothesis Frame, Confirmation Bias, and Professional Skepticism. The Accounting Review. [Cited by 18] (1.38/year)
MCMILLAN, J.J., 1990. The role of confirmation bias, experience, and mode of information processing in audit judment. [not cited] (0/year)
MED, A.E., Academic Emergency Medicine. Profiles in Patient Safety: Confirmation Bias in Emergency Medicine. [not cited] (?/year)
MEDVEC, V.H., G. BERGER and K. AWERKAMP, 2003. … clock, isn't it: The relationship between ime pressure and the confirmation bias. EA Mannix, MA …. Research on Managing Groups and Team: Time in Groups. [Cited by 2] (0.66/year)
MEDVEC, V.H., G. BERGER and K. AWERKAMP, 2003. … the clock, isn't it: The relationship between ime pressure and the confirmation bias. EA Mannix, MA …. [Cited by 1] (0.33/year)
MITROFF, I.I., 1981. Scientists and confirmation bias. On scientific thinking. [Cited by 1] (0.04/year)
MOLZ, G., The" Confirmation Bias": Does it Result from Mental Accounting? An Exploratory Analysis. geb.uni-giessen.de. [not cited] (?/year)
MURRAY, C.B., 1996. Estimating Achievement Performance: A Confirmation Bias.. Journal of Black Psychology. [Cited by 5] (0.50/year)
MUTHARD, E. and C.D. WICKENS, 2001. Change detection and the confirmation bias in aviation route planning (Technical Report ARL-01-18/ …. Savoy, IL: University of Illinois, Aviation Research Lab. [Cited by 2] (0.40/year)
MUTHARD, E. and C.D. WICKENS, 2001. Change detection and the confirmation bias in aviation route planning. [Cited by 1] (0.20/year)
MUTHARD, E.K. and C.D. WICKENS, 2001. … in a flight planning task environment: An examination of the confirmation bias and its relation to …. [Cited by 1] (0.20/year)
MYNATT, C.R., M.E. DOHERTY and R.D. TWENEY, 1977. Confirmation bias in a simulated research environment: An experimental study of scientific inference. Quarterly Journal of Experimental Psychology. [Cited by 68] (2.34/year)
NICKERSON, R.S., 1998. Confirmation bias: A ubiquitous phenomenon in many guises. Review of General Psychology. [Cited by 53] (6.62/year)
NIGHSWONGER, N.J., 1984. Confirmation bias in hypothesis testing: the effects of logical task structure. [not cited] (0/year)
NOTT, M.R., 2001. Misidentification, in-filling and confirmation bias.. Anaesthesia. [Cited by 4] (0.80/year)
OCHOA, T.A., … Disruptive Students' Teachability Through Awareness of Confirmation Bias and Redirecting Attention …. [not cited] (?/year)
OCHOA, T.A., 1999. … disruptive students' teachability through awareness of confirmation bias and redirecting attention …. [not cited] (0/year)
PATINO, H., Reducing confirmation bias in clinical decision-making: Eli I. J Dent Educ 60: 831, 1996. [not cited] (?/year)
PAYNE, C.R., 2002. … Model of Sexual Harassment: Situational Primes, Individual Differences, and Confirmation Bias. Unpublished master's prospectus. [not cited] (0/year)
RABIN, M. and J. SCHRAG, 1997. Confirmation Bias. Berkeley Department of Economics Working Paper, University …. [Cited by 1] (0.11/year)
RABIN, M. and J. SCHRAG, 1999. First Impressions Matter: A Model of Confirmation Bias. Quarterly Journal of Economics. [Cited by 9] (1.28/year)
RABIN, M. and J.L. SCHRAG, 1999. FIRST IMPRESSIONS MATTER: A MODEL OF CONFIRMATORY BIAS. Technology. [Cited by 113] (16.12/year)
RABIN, M., kley. SCHRAG (1997)“First impressions matter: a model of confirmatory bias”. Working paper n? 97-250, U. California at Ber. [Cited by 2] (?/year)
ROBLES, J., 1996. Confirmation Bias in Structural Equation Modeling.. Structural Equation Modeling. [Cited by 4] (0.40/year)
ROMERO, H.A., 1997. An analysis of the effect of confirmation bias on industrial radiography. [not cited] (0/year)
SCHRAG, J.L., 1999. FIRST IMPRESSIONS MATTER: A MODEL OF CONFIRMATORY BIAS. The Quarterly Journal of Economics. [not cited] (0/year)
SILVERMAN, B.G., 1992. Modeling and critiquing the confirmation bias in human reasoning. Systems, Man and Cybernetics, IEEE Transactions on. [Cited by 2] (0.14/year)
STEWART, I., 2002. Focus on Error Prevention Confirmation bias. CANADIAN PHARMACEUTICAL JOURNAL. [not cited] (0/year)
STONE, R., 2001. … bias: virtue or vice?: investigating the decision-theoretic implications of confirmatory bias. [not cited] (0/year)
STROHMER, D.C. and V.A. SHIVY, 1994. Bias in counselor hypothesis testing: Testing the robustness of counselor confirmatory bias. Journal of Counseling & Development. [Cited by 10] (0.83/year)
TOLBERT, C.A., 1983. The confirmation bias as a function of level of training, hypothesis form and problem content. [not cited] (0/year)
TOLCOTT, M.A. and F.F. MARVIN, 1988. Reducing the confirmation bias in an evolving situation. [Cited by 2] (0.11/year)
TOLCOTT, M.A., F.F. MARVIN and T.A. BRESNICK, 1989. The confirmation bias in military situation assessment. Proceedings of the 57 thMORS Symposium. [Cited by 7] (0.41/year)
WARD, S.G., 2000. DECISION SUPPORT FOR WHAT-IF ANALYSIS AND THE CONFIRMATION BIAS. JOURNAL OF COMPUTER INFORMATION SYSTEMS. [not cited] (0/year)
WHITE, M.J., 1993. Confirmatory Bias in Evaluating Personality Test Information: Am I Really That Kind of Person?.. Journal of Counseling Psychology. [Cited by 3] (0.23/year)
YARIV, L., I'll See It When I Believe It. uni-bonn.de. [Cited by 5] (?/year)
charlton97
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:51 pm
Location: UK
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Bias?

Post by charlton97 »

Please when suggesting my web site is biased Daktari remember that my pages also include links to all Scottish Forces, including SCRO?

http://www.david.charlton97.btinternet. ... age12.html

Ho Hum.
Daktari
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:50 am
Location: Glasgow

Post by Daktari »

the entire who's who of the fingerprint community
I don't think halaf a dozen or so McKie supporters makes up the entire who's who of any commnunity. Any more than 171 people signing a petition makes a majority, who knows how many chose not to sign it?
charlton97
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:51 pm
Location: UK
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News

Post by charlton97 »

I didn't sign the petition either? Did I?? Perhaps you would like to confirm to the rest of the community that fact. Or perhaps you can somehow turn that into a negative too??

I would like to add a serious point here about bias, and I have mentioned this before. Once a petition is started in this way a bandwagon mentality does indeed kick in and the notion of whether the mark Y7 is indeed ident or not quickly becomes engulfed in a desire to please, group think etc etc. In other words, I have never given an opinion on Y7, nor could I now because I know too much about the context to ever make a rational judgement. It would be impossible for me to assess Y7 without using my prior knowledge of the case and history.

This phenomenon can equally be applied to those who said Y7 was ident as well as those who said it was not once it became a matter of public debate. This is why arbitration and consultation techniques must be developed to ensure that we get the most robust and reliable deliberation on any disputed mark. Straw poles and nudges and winks don't cut the mustard.

Earlier I said a plague on both your houses. No one can benefit from this mess. Only the lawyers. Unless we embrace academic study, learn from these instances and move on, and move on quickly.

Again Daktari, tell us who you are so that we can engage in a sensible dialogue?
Daktari
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:50 am
Location: Glasgow

Post by Daktari »

Dave, you have mentioned bias, bandwagon mentality, desire to please, group think, etc. as factors that may affect how one forms an opinion about a mark. I don’t necessarily disagree. What I would say however is that there is usually sufficient verification procedures in place to make sure that any ‘mistakes’ that do happen are not allowed to proceed past this.
You also stated that this phenomenon can equally be applied to those who said Y7 was an ident as well as those who said it was not once it became a matter of public debate. That may be true also.
What I can’t get my head round is how, for example, Peter Swann or Malcolm Graham became victim of this. After all, they were working for the Asbury and McKie defence teams. So the ‘eager to please’ indent would not be a factor. They did not visit the crime scene; so there would not be top-down contextual factors that so influenced your student volunteers either.
As a clue to my identity, I initially thought that SCRO got it wrong!
charlton97
Posts: 184
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A discussion

Post by charlton97 »

Daktari,

thank you for your cordial response. I hope to maintain a dialogue now that we have established a mutual ground for academic discussion.

I understand what you are saying, and yes, you are right that if Mr Swann saw the material without context that he would be less prone, but not free from biasing influences. Even as an independent examiner, one is seldom free from biasing influences. I will explain:

Mr Swann would have I am sure met with the McKies, would have been informed of her involvement in a murder enquiry as a DC, would have been aware of the context of a murder enquiry involving the murder of Marion Ross and Shirley McKies part in this whole affair etc etc.

Mr Swann would as I understand it have been given a set of marked up enlargements and comparison charts from solicitors, not the original material at that time. Having assumed that one of these marked up charts was of the mark Y7, he would have come to a conclusion of identity. But to my knowledge he was never in possession of original material at that time and was working from data supplied by Solicitors. Do you see where my premise is leading me Daktari. By the time he would have had an opportunity to look at original material it would by then have been too late to clear the mind of the original work with the enlargements.

Already Mr Swann was 'primed', not only by the visual stimuli of the marked up enlargements but also by the fact that only a very very very small proportion of such comparisons would ever be seen as a mistake. To quote the FBI report into Mayfield, 'to disagree was not the expected response'. Like it or not Mr swann is an ex senior Police officer, ex Head of bureau, a senior member of the Fingerprint community. In short any expert, even in the defence domain, has too much baggage associated with old loyalties, old friends and when you couple that with the comparison of data already marked up and you quickly see where bias can creep in. Of course I am not saying this was something that Mr swann could help. We are all vulnerable to similar experiences. We are human.

Mr Swann's decision is not my concern. He may be right or he may be wrong for all I know. But the circumstances and methodology employed must be open to the notion of biasing influences.

I am sure that my facts may not be 100% accurate in regard to Mr Swann's instructions from his clients, but I am more interested in how bias could come into play in any walk of life.

Do you agree this is possible? Please also remember that we repeated our studies on fingerprint experts and achieved biasing effects when data was placed within a context. Food for thought Daktari?
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